FINDING LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT - ARTICLE DISCUSSION - SILENT BUT DEADLY (1920's and earlier) - MOVIES BY DECADE! Which is YOUR favorite? - THE HORROR DRUNX - Horror Movie Message Boards - Message Board

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FINDING LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT - ARTICLE DISCUSSION

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R Pond.monsterkidclass...	THIS JUST IN...	#201	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3 09/19/08 18:34:12	For what it is worth, September 17th which was two nights ago, I was at The New Beverly Cinema in Los Angeles for the screening of the Werner Herzog film Enounters At The End Of The World. Sid Terror was there and was apparently personally reponsible for getting Herzog to appear, because the theater had a small sign hanging in their box office thanking him and The Horror Drunx for it. Sure enough, Sid also introduced Werner Herzog and his long time editor Joe Bini for a question and answer session that lasted about an hour. I have to say it was one of the best I've ever attended and Sid knows his movies, not just horror. Afterwards, there was a photo session with papparazi outside who took pictures of Herzog with the theater marquee in the background. Sid stayed off to one side giving Herzog and the photographer their space, it was Herzog's night after all. Then Herzog himself requested that Sid step into the pictures. They are apparently very buddy-buddy. If one of the top directors in the world, a German director who also did his own version of Nosferatu (there is that Max Schreck connection again) thinks that highly of Sid Terror... Hmmm. He was by the way also asked within my earshot and with Werner Herzog standing next to him about what was happening with London After Midnight and answered there was "some surprising forward movement, well not surprising to me but some people seem to be. It is not any that I'm at liberty to talk about publically quite yet though". Some interesting connections: Werner Herzog's film Encounters At The End Of The World was by the same company that the producer who vouched for Sid on Aint-It-Cool-News works for, as well as the company Lori DeWitt works for. Also, that same theater has hosted film festivals by Edgar Wright (which Sid contributed to) and Eli Roth (who wrote a story that appears on The Horror Drunx website), and the building that The New Beverly Cinema is housed in is quietly owned by Quentin Tarrentino. I'd say Mr. Terror and The Horror Drunx are a bit better connected than some people may have guessed. I wouldn't completely rule out his findings quite yet. Thanks, Sid!
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Johnny Bisco		#202	[url]	[-]
Posts: 161 09/20/08 16:26:14	hey R. Pond could you possibly pass these exact comments along to some other places that have ripped Sid? I feel that it needs to be pased along and not just on this board! Michigan Horror Drunx Chapter Leader www.myspace.com/michiganhorrordrunx
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R Pond.monsterkidclass...		#203	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3 09/21/08 21:52:01	Johnny Bisco wrote: hey R. Pond could you possibly pass these exact comments along to some other places that have ripped Sid? I feel that it needs to be pased along and not just on this board! I did and it just generated another mini firestorm of nonsense. People seem to be stuck in their malformed opinions and life has taught me you can't change a stobborn mind. One member even adamantly brought up a point about a false TCM listing that Sid had mentioned, when in reality the article never mentioned it as a TCM listing... Sid said it was announced for "AMC (American Movie Classics) cable television station". In other words, the members on that board are distorting information and getting it wrong, then blame their own mistakes on Sid Terror and use that to try and debunk his story. Then that messed up wrong information is used as if it was the gospel truth by know nothing people like the chick who does that She Bloged By Night article. It is one big mess. I don't get it. It seem like axes are just being ground. In my eyes, Sid is very knowledgeable on film and knows what he is talking about. He also obviously knows a lot of people and has done the things he's said he has. I don't think Sid Terror would put a story out there that he didn't himself believe to be true, because it might harm any good will that he may have spent a lifetime building. He seems to take film too seriously for that. He is correct, the film was with the owners and he had to back away and hope they did the right thing with it. There was nothing he could do short of stealing it out of there and at the time there was no reason for him to believe he should go to such drastic steps. Most people that are outsiders to this story say they would have taken the chance and stolen it. Sure that is easy to >say<. The truth of the matter is that had someone stolen the film on the day Sid found it and they had been caught, they'd have been convicted of a federal crime and the penalty would most likely be high enough that they would still be in jail to this day. With London After Midnight, it is just such a hot button topic with so many people and hoaxes have been perpetuated in the past and fooled people. No one wants to get fooled again so they are being too overly cautious about it now. Any slight incongruities that may be in his story, I can see as being there because it is information that happened so long ago. Memories may fade and warp over time on small details, but their is no mistaking the main details that really count here. Over all, I want to and do believe him and think people at Warner Bros. should too. The only hitch in this story is that so much time has gone by. For all we know someone opened those film cans and saw some nitrate rotting, then disposed of them. That is a very real possibility and in that case there isn't one person at Warners who will admit they messed up and had it in their possession but let it rot. It will be covered up and denied as a hoax, just like we are seeing happen now.
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deathdolly		#204	[url]	[-]
Posts: 494 09/22/08 00:13:46	R Pond wrote: Johnny Bisco wrote: hey R. Pond could you possibly pass these exact comments along to some other places that have ripped Sid? I feel that it needs to be pased along and not just on this board! I did and it just generated another mini firestorm of nonsense. People seem to be stuck in their malformed opinions and life has taught me you can't change a stobborn mind. One member even adamantly brought up a point about a false TCM listing that Sid had mentioned, when in reality the article never mentioned it as a TCM listing... Sid said it was announced for "AMC (American Movie Classics) cable television station". In other words, the members on that board are distorting information and getting it wrong, then blame their own mistakes on Sid Terror and use that to try and debunk his story. Then that messed up wrong information is used as if it was the gospel truth by know nothing people like the chick who does that She Bloged By Night article. It is one big mess. I don't get it. It seem like axes are just being ground. In my eyes, Sid is very knowledgeable on film and knows what he is talking about. He also obviously knows a lot of people and has done the things he's said he has. I don't think Sid Terror would put a story out there that he didn't himself believe to be true, because it might harm any good will that he may have spent a lifetime building. He seems to take film too seriously for that. He is correct, the film was with the owners and he had to back away and hope they did the right thing with it. There was nothing he could do short of stealing it out of there and at the time there was no reason for him to believe he should go to such drastic steps. Most people that are outsiders to this story say they would have taken the chance and stolen it. Sure that is easy to >say<. The truth of the matter is that had someone stolen the film on the day Sid found it and they had been caught, they'd have been convicted of a federal crime and the penalty would most likely be high enough that they would still be in jail to this day. With London After Midnight, it is just such a hot button topic with so many people and hoaxes have been perpetuated in the past and fooled people. No one wants to get fooled again so they are being too overly cautious about it now. Any slight incongruities that may be in his story, I can see as being there because it is information that happened so long ago. Memories may fade and warp over time on small details, but their is no mistaking the main details that really count here. Over all, I want to and do believe him and think people at Warner Bros. should too. The only hitch in this story is that so much time has gone by. For all we know someone opened those film cans and saw some nitrate rotting, then disposed of them. That is a very real possibility and in that case there isn't one person at Warners who will admit they messed up and had it in their possession but let it rot. It will be covered up and denied as a hoax, just like we are seeing happen now. Doesn't surprise me one bit that the naysayers continue. Blah, blah, blah... I was at the theater on the 17th and it was an incredible night. Werner Herzog is a brilliant man and mind. Kudos again to Sid and to Mr. Herzog.
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Sid Terror		#205	[url]	[-]
Posts: 521 09/22/08 18:14:57	Thank you for the kind words, folks! I'm glad everyone seemed to enjoy themselves. Werner really had a great time too and even extended an offer to come back whenever any of his other films are screened and he is available. I've also put together some other special screening nights with guest speakers and those will be coming up in early November at The New Beverly. We'll be releasing details very soon. There may even be something popping up around Halloween that I'm waiting to hear back about availability of prints and guests on. I'll keep you informed in the EVENTS folder here and on some other sites. --Sid Terror Horror Drunx: Hollywood Chapter Leader
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Drac39		#206	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 09/25/08 19:53:38	I look forward to any new developments. I strongly believe in what Sid said in his opening post nearly 3 months ago, no film is ever lost they just need to be found. You should have asked Herzog if he had the key to Kubrick's film library :P
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Sid Terror		#207	[url]	[-]
Posts: 521 09/25/08 21:31:56	Drac39 wrote: I look forward to any new developments. I strongly believe in what Sid said in his opening post nearly 3 months ago, no film is ever lost they just need to be found. You should have asked Herzog if he had the key to Kubrick's film library :P Haha Maybe I will ask Werner when he gets back in town, he just left for Spain to direct an opera and will be gone for months. Rumors have persisted for decades that Stanley Kubrick may have had a surviving print of London After Midnight stashed away in his private collection. It could well be one of those rumors that has a foundation in truth, but probably not. While it appears it wasn't amongst his archives that were sent to The University Of Arts London in March of 2007, not everything was sent there either. Incidentally, one lead of interest I'm pursuing... I'm waiting to hear back some information from a British projectionist that has come forward with a viable claim that he projected a nitrate print for a wealthy client in London in the late 1980's. It could lead to a dead end or to nothing, but I will leave no stone unturned. There are some additional very important leads that I'm following up on concerning London After Midnight, other than just my own personal sighting. --Sid Terror Horror Drunx: Hollywood Chapter Leader
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Gregbert		#208	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6 09/28/08 10:31:02	I just also want to continue my support for Sid Terror. I would not be one bit surprised that some person would have a bootlegged print or a print from some "other" source for this film. I think we would all be surprised by what people were able to get their hands on in those days. I want to thank Sid and the people helping him for all their time, work, and progress on this. I wish there was a way I could help! I do have a couple of questions. Do studios have an amnesty program currently in place for the return of missing material? Also, are there any articles on the MGM vault fire in the 1960s? I am assuming this is the same vault fire that destroyed all the negatives to the early Tom & Jerry cartoon shorts. Unlike LAM, at least those shorts had positive prints stored elsewhere. I am just curious what was destroyed in that fire that was a neg or also is now considered lost. Take care, Greg
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Sid Terror		#209	[url]	[-]
Posts: 521 09/29/08 01:00:26	Gregbert wrote: I do have a couple of questions. Do studios have an amnesty program currently in place for the return of missing material? Also, are there any articles on the MGM vault fire in the 1960s? I am assuming this is the same vault fire that destroyed all the negatives to the early Tom & Jerry cartoon shorts. Unlike LAM, at least those shorts had positive prints stored elsewhere. I am just curious what was destroyed in that fire that was a neg or also is now considered lost. Take care, Greg Greg, Thank you for the support. It has so far been an uphill trek wrapped in a ton of bureaucratic red tape. No, there is not yet an amnesty program in place. That is one of the things we are really pushing for here. It is going to take a sizeable carrot on a stick and some people (mainly myself) putting their necks on the line to maybe make that happen. Right now it is mostly a matter of building up some trust, both from the studios and from collectors who have the materials. Once one or two see that I will happily be an arbitrator and would NEVER EVER turn anyone in to the authorities, we are hoping that those floodgates will open. Right now, I know exactly were some items of interest are to be found, but my hands are tied until some people and organizations are trusting enough to move forward. It is not the kind of thing that can be forced and discretion is at the forefront. As far as I know the definitive article about the MGM vault fire has not been written, though I would love to read one or even write it had I more information. As it is, it's even hard tracking down the exact date that it occurred, people have quoted years from 1965 to 1967 all over the Internet. London After Midnight was not the only Chaney title that was "lost" in the fire... BLIND BARGAIN, another film with Chaney in dual roles, released in 1922 by Goldwyn was also lost. Partly B&W and partly color tinted, it apparently ran 57 minutes at 21fps (alternate titles are "The Octave Of Claudius" in the USA and "Obsesion De Un Sabio" in Spain). The negative was destroyed in 1931 when Goldwyn was taken over by MGM. The last known print also burned in the MGM vault fire. This film was directed by Wallace Worsley who also did Chaney's THE PENALTY, VOICES OF THE CITY and ACE OF HEARTS. Many other treasures were lost in that fire as well. --Sid Terror Horror Drunx: Hollywood Chapter Leader
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Gregbert		#210	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6 09/29/08 08:10:27	Sid, Thank you for the reply. It is disheartening to hear that an amnesty program is not already in place. This should have been instigated by the studios or pushed by the film historians and third party archives such as UCLA or even the Library of Congress. I am glad you are on it. I am sure you probably know about this or heard of similar programs but if you are negotiating with studios for this amnesty, precedent has been set in the UK. I know that big film studios have different priorities than UK TV channels but the BBC set up a program 8 years ago called Treasure Hunt. Here is the link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/treasurehunt/ The point of this program was to let anyone know that if they held BBC copyrighted material that they were allowed to return with no questions asked. The site is not being updated anymore but the policy is still in place. Other UK networks did a series last year called "Raiders of the Lost Archive" which basically was the same premise. Lots of stuff turned up. I could get you in touch with people at the BFI (British Film Institute) who works with getting material back and they may be able to offer assistance. This makes it sound like I am based in the UK but I am from Minnesota. I have a love for British television and have been involved with some minor investigation into missing programs. It is one of my favorite subjects. It's funny, seeing all of the media hype around the finding of "Metropolis" this year, I would have thought that this would be a no-brainer for them. The problem is though that I would assume that MGM may be a little embarrassed that the film is gone in the first place. Even if it is through no fault of their own, I know first hand that the embarrassment factor is one of the first things that a studio needs to overcome. Also, do we have any records that LAM was ever sold to any TV stations. I know that when television first started out, older silent films were a big part of the schedule. Just some ideas! Thanks for the info on the MGM fire. What a loss! Take care, Greg
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Jason Grove		#211	[url]	[-]
Posts: 292 09/30/08 07:08:25	Believe it or not, I think that news of the complete print of Metropolis being found so near the time that Sid's LAM article was released actually may have hurt the credibility of Sid's article. More than a few times I've heard some idiot or another spouting off that one of the only reasons Sid's article came out was because it was to cash in the the Metropolis find. That was supposed to be their proof that his London After Midnight article was a phony or something. I know for a fact that Sid had begun actively working on the article for well over a month before the Metropolis story broke. Mortimer, myself and several others heard the story from Sid first hand for years. He had tried various things, telling different people and had gotten nowhere with it for many years and it just seemed there was no place else to go with it. Once that the www.TheHorrorDrunx.com website was up and these attached message boards were running we knew we would have a place for it to be heard. Quite awhile back, before we had our own website up, Sid had said that he thought he had another place he could share the story and was starting to get it together. We were all for it at first, then started noticing that other board was swiping articles The Horror Drunx had put out in the myspace bulletins - - flagrantly ripping them off, removing all mention of The Horror Drunx, rewriting them ever so slightly, then adding their own names. One of the exclusive articles that was plagerized (by someone calling himself an author, no less) was one of my stories. When I asked that they take it down I was then attacked by the members of that site for it. Apparently they thought it was alright to rip things off and not even give credit where it was due. We tried to talk sense to them and they blocked my IP number and deleted my account for it. That was around the time that Sid told them to screw off and stopped posting there. They have themselves to blame for losing the big story. Had they been less abrasive people and a bit more honest and helpful, they could have had Sid Terror's article about London After Midnight as their own. Instead, they tried to get back at us in their petty little way by saying the story was a fraud and a hoax and floating that lie on the internet. When some of their members came over here and were completely abusive, guess who complained the loudest that we were "UNFAIR" and "HIDING CRITICISMS" when their accounts were blocked and messages deleted? Yep, the people who had done the same things to me. Hypocrites. It took a few more months to get the story out, until this site was up, but it was certainly a less biased and friendlier home than it could have had. As it is, they cut and pasted Sid's exclusive LAM article over there piece by piece anyway then giggled about how many hits it was getting for their website. Once thieves, always thieves. "Those Horror Drunx did it just for the hits on their website" ...Yeah right. WHO did it just for the hits again? Our objectives and motives were always honest and for the best. That is more than they can say without lying about it. Love, The Screaming Bloody Skull of JASON GROVE Horror Drunx Events Co'ordinator
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Moderator LARRY TALBOT		#212	[url]	[-]
Posts: 57 09/30/08 20:00:15 Moderator	Jason, We'd like to take the higher road and put that in the past, even if others want to continue to take the low road. Let's not stoop to their level. It is a much better thing to keep on topic.
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sherlockjr	Still have doubts	#213	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2 10/03/08 20:53:45	At the time this came out I sent it to many archivists, George Feltenstein at WB, writers, Chaney fans and more. They all wrote back with the same answer...."let's hope it is true but there are too many problems with this story to believe it." Everybody wants it found and none of them would get in the way. No conspiracy theory will work except the fear that the movie itself will turn out to be not as good as its reputation. The original review in Variety of 12-14-1927 was pretty bad. So I'll join them in holding our collective breaths and praying to a g-d we may not believe in.
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Sid Terror		#214	[url]	[-]
Posts: 521 10/04/08 05:56:00	sherlockjr wrote: The original review in Variety of 12-14-1927 was pretty bad. From what I hear, so were my reviews apparently. That is why I never listen to the critics and always discover things for myself and make up my own mind. --Sid Terror Horror Drunx: Hollywood Chapter Leader
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Drac39		#215	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 10/05/08 21:57:41	Chaney is more appreciated in death than he ever was in life. The Unknown was smashed by critics but film fans see it today as a masterpiece of the macabre. The consensus of London After Midnight Reviews said the make-up was 'gruesome'
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LonChaney		#216	[url]	[-]
Posts: 14 10/11/08 23:22:40	To Mr. Terror and everyone, I sincerely hope that your new leads to finding a surviving print of "London After Midnight" prove fruitful because: #1, I really want the picture to be found now, after all of the harsh, harsh, undue criticism you've received; and, #2, it would give me great pleasure to see all of the naysayers and snarky know-it-alls with a deluxe chicken coop load of grossly undercooked omelet dripping ever so slowly off their startled faces. I'm not counting my chickens just yet, but they are poised and ready to start laying. LON F. CHANEY Beverly Hills, CA
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Drac39		#217	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 10/16/08 22:32:01	I'll second Lon above. Maybe that elusive print is long gone but it's silly to say don't try looking for a print because the consensus says it is lost.
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Mort Daddy	Now if I only could get Bela Lugosi Jr. and Sarah Karloff on our side. LOL.	#218	[url]	[-]
Posts: 820 11/12/08 22:40:36	The Chaney Entertainment page friended The HD on myspace.com earlier today It is a very kind gesture by Ron Chaney himself.
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Drac39		#219	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 12/02/08 23:39:26	I think Ron may have passed the torch to his daughters
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Drac39		#220	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 07/03/09 22:56:37	One year later, are their any updates Sid? I remember how excited I was when I first read the article.
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